Talk:Iran–Iraq War

USS Stark Incident

Currently the section for this notes that an Iraqi Mirage fighter jet fired the missiles at the USS Stark--but shouldn't this read more like "a modified Dassault Falcon 50" fired the missiles, or something along those lines (in correct wikipedia syntax of course)

I didn't want to make the edit because I've got no idea how to cite anything, but the USS Stark Incident page cites the following (along with two other relevant citations): https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-modified-iraqi-falcon-50-business-jet-nearly-destroyed-us-frigate-66772

Worth noting I suppose that the Stark initially thought it was a Mirage fighter, perhaps that led to the confusion? 2603:8080:7400:DF2:452:8089:9BB5:7889 (talk) 17:52, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

How the war started, and the addition of Iranian attempting to provoke war.

I have been studying the Iran-Iraq war for a couple of years now, and something the wikipedia page does not cover is how much iran actually provoked Iraq into an attack, also the page includes stuff about how Saddams regime wanted to take kuzhesthan, but this dosent have much sufficent evidence, and alot of sources differ, expescially considering Iraq had accepted a cease-fire on september the 28th, 4 days after the war offically started, which they wouldnt have accepted if they had wanted to taken iranian land,

"Within days, Iraqi forces invaded Iran. At the same time, Iraq bombed Iranian air bases and other strategic targets. In the week following the invasion, the UN Security Council called for a cease-fire and appealed to Iran and Iraq to settle their dispute peacefully. The Iraqi president replied, saying that Iraq would accept a cease-fire provided Iran did as well. Iran’s response, however, was negative. The war thus continued and in succeeding years was extended to the gulf area."[1]Source,

Also before this, Saddam had constanly praised and congraulated Khomeini on his success, with Saddam quoting in one of his speeches, "We congraulate the Iranian people on there freedom.', even after Khomeini announced that the shias must rise up and get rid of the "Infidel" Saddam Hussein, Saddam responded yet again with praise, just wanting to establish mutual ties, instead, Iran constantly had border skirmishes, and launched artillery strikes onto the Iraqi side of the shatt-al arab, and even on populated towns.

The Iran–Iraq War: 1980–1988, Osprey Publishing "It is difficult to pinpoint when tensions began to build, but there were frequent cross-border skirmishes, largely at Iran's instigation. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini called on Iraqis to overthrow the Ba'ath government, which was received with considerable anger in Baghdad. On 17 July 1979, despite Khomeini's call, Saddam gave a speech praising the Iranian Revolution and called for an Iraqi-Iranian friendship based on non-interference in each other's internal affairs. When Khomeini rejected Saddam's overture by calling for Islamic revolution in Iraq, Saddam was alarmed. Iran's new Islamic administration was regarded in Baghdad as an irrational, existential threat to the Ba'ath government, especially because the Ba'ath party, having a secular nature, discriminated and posed a threat to the Shia movement in Iraq, whose clerics were Iran's allies within Iraq and whom Khomeini saw as oppressed."

If anyone wants aswell, i have documented violations by the Iranians on iraqi land pre-war, which are up to a 100 documented cases of Iranian violations of Iraqi soverignity, the war (unoffically) started on september 4th according to the Iraqi's, which wouldnt be far-feched, due to the fact the Iranians were already attacking Iraqi towns with artillery and attempted to assainate Tariz Aziz, which failed, and instead killed several Iraqi Students, which was one of the reasons Iraq decided to cross the border, the war was meant to last only a week, just to warn the Iranians, and attempt to force-khomeini into argeeing to non-aggression, which is why Iraq agreed to UN security councils proposal for peace.

The Myth of Iraq wanting kuzehstan is extremely debunkable, it has been proven countless times, that Iraq did not want to annex any Iranian-land, both Saddam publically declared this, and so did his Ambassdor.

"We have no claim or ambition in any Iranian territory at all, we have just said that defintely." - Sa'dun Hammadi

"So the Iraqi army will withdraw from the east bank of the Shatt-al-arab?" - Interviewer

"Certainly." - Sa'dun Hammadi

I have loads of archived footage, and videos, and documents etc etc if anyone wants more proof, the above interview was filmed, i have the footage of it if anyone wants, i am just seeking approval to make the large-ish edit to the article, to include a more correct version. Local Mandaean (talk) 02:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Sino Soviet split and Arab Israeli conflict

The USSR supported Iraq while China supported Iran. Also Israel launched an airstrike on the Iraqi nuke reactor Operation Opera 2A00:23EE:2738:4326:451E:A45E:F52B:498B (talk) 13:13, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Can the Iran-Iraq War be considered an Iraqi Victory?

The largely popular consensus around the war is that it was a stalemate until the war ended in 1988. This is largely incorrect, due to Iraq breaking the stalemate in 1988, months before the ceasefire was signed, which is what many consider as the end of the war, with 5 decisive victories which expelled all Iranian forces from Iraq and regained ≈9000 km² of Iranian land. This, along with Iraq being able to force Iran to the peace table, despite Iran's repeated provocations before the Iraqi invasion of Iran in 1980 and Iran's repeated refusals of any attempts at peace, whether it be by the United Nations or the Iraqi government. In addition to this, Iraq had become a powerhouse as a result of an unpreccedented military buildup. These points alone would usually constitute victory for a nation, but yet they do not in the case of Iraq. Instead, the war gets labeled as Inconclusive, largely due to the stalemate from 1982-1987 and Iraq giving back their captured land to Iran in 16 August 1990. KiddKrazy (talk) 12:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I also wonder why certain editors always revert the territorial change to Status quo ante bellum when the Iraqi occupation of Iranian land didn't end until many years after 1988 (which to be fair the note states) Damian Lew (talk) 12:29, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@Damian Lew i tried to change it to include that, but someone reverted it saying that the infobox needs to be simplistic and that is what the note is for. Still though, i think the war can be considered an Iraqi Victory, largely due to the points i made. KiddKrazy (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

To quote WP:RESULT: The "result" parameter has often been a source of contention. Particular attention should be given to the advice therein. The infobox does not have the scope to reflect nuances, and should be restricted to "X victory" or "Inconclusive". MrOllie (talk) 13:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@MrOllie True, but could there be an argument for changing it from "Inconclusive" to "Iraqi victory" based on the points i made? KiddKrazy (talk) 13:32, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

That would not be an accurate summary of the article (particularly the 'Aftermath' section) or the sources it cites. Making your own argument, not based direct statements from sources, is original research, and is not how Wikipedia is written. MrOllie (talk) 14:11, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@MrOllie Oh. Makes sense. Thanks for explanation. KiddKrazy (talk) 14:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Too little is written about the provocations and attacks of Iran leading to the war.

In the "prelude" section, not much is written about the provocations of Iran, despite it being a major reason for the war, it is mentioned in passing as if its a small detail. Some key details regarding provocations are not even written about here.

I translated the Farsi Wikipedia page regarding the war and it included speeches Khomeini made calling for an overthrow of the Ba'ath government, Iranian newspaper articles about Iranian attacks against Iraq before the war, the attempted assassination of Tariq Aziz and lots more information.

They also write about the supposed "fact" that Saddam wanted to take over Khuzestan, when this can be disproved. Both by statements issued by Saddam and his ministers saying they had no interest in a land grab and wanted to spread the message that Khomeini's regime could not threaten Iraq, which makes sense regarding previous Iranian provocations and by the UN resolution to stop the war passed shortly after the outbreak of full on war in sep. 1980, where Iraq accepted but Iran denied.

Local Mandaean raised this issue before, though it went unanswered.

So the question is: Why? Why are key details of the prelude to the war left out, as if to spread the false narrative that Iraq invaded unprovoked and out of opportunism? KiddKrazy (talk) 14:01, 31 October 2024 (UTC)